SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hi Huntresses.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

This is Top Rich.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Where we get more comfortable talking about money and dealing with money.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Brought to you by Huntress Wealth. 71% of women are investing, but only one in six feels confident about where she's headed. Huntress is the all-in-one financial app built to help you make a plan, get actionable steps, and build your wealth. Join the wait list at HuntressWealth.com and get good with money. My friend Kat is here to join us. And she is the founder of Embodied Boss. And she's here to share a little bit with us about her story. But how would you start it off?

SPEAKER_01 0:57

I would love to just invite us to ground for one minute, gift everyone a nice little one-minute practice. So if you're driving, keep driving. And you can breathe with your eyes open. But inviting everyone in for um yeah, a moment to find their center. And we're going to breathe in for five counts through the nose, and then we're going to breathe out for five counts through the nose. So I'll count you in for the first one, and then we'll move from there.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

So breathing in, two, three, four, five, out, two, three, four, five. In the last coming back when you're ready.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

I always love the way she opens it up because that's the way she opens up her conversation. And I hope that you guys feel the tranquility that I always do when she does that. Thank you. She is the founder of Embodied Boss, which is all about being in tune with your feminine side, but this idea is a complete shift from what you used to do. Um and I think it'd be fascinating for people to learn more about you, your background, and how you came to be the founder of Embodied Boss.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

My background is I grew up in New York. My father was in advertising, my grandfather was in advertising, and it was something that I stayed away from for a very long time. Um, and I eventually ended up, after a 10-year career as a fashion designer, stepping into advertising. I was an executive producer for one of the top agencies in not just New York, but the world and working on some of the, you know, Fortune 50 companies ads for them. I was chasing that dream. I had financial success, and I got to that top, and I was depressed, I was lonely, and I was lost. And so I was chasing the thing that I thought that I wanted and I and that the world had taught me success looked like. But at the core of it, I was burnt out and unhappy. And I had to take a really good hard look at myself when I got there. I was dating an alcoholic. When we broke up, I got to really look at myself and go, how did I attract this into my life? What where was I that I allowed this to happen, that I drawed this in? That's when I found a gentleman online. His name is John Wineland, and he does what's called sexual polarity and embodiment work. And it I he talks about the masculine and feminine that lives in each of us. And I was reminded by that a therapist 10 years earlier had told me that I was very much in my masculine, my gang energy. And he was like, We got to balance you out. I didn't understand it at the time. But the way that John described it, and after this breakup, I said, Well, something's got to shift in me. If I wanted to have partnership and joy in my life, something's got to shift in me. And through this discovery of what the feminine gets to be, which the gift of the feminine is to feel, it was that journey that started to bring me back into my body and back into connection and out of my doing mind, my pushing through mind, and really brought me into what is available to me at any moment. It brought me into presence. It brought me into pleasure and joy and connection with people. And it made me realize that I was really living a life that when I felt into it, I was very unhappy in. And I got I was at a point uh in my career where it's like, okay, well, if this is what success is and this is what this feels like, I got all the things, I did all the things, but I'm unhappy, then I started to just question everything. What else can life be? And so that's really the beginning of my story.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

As you were going through this journey, did you continue to stay in the pathway of advertising? What was that big pivot for you?

SPEAKER_01 6:35

When COVID hit and the world shut down, my apartment became like this chain that was weighing me down. And as I started to expand and explore myself more and more, I became more and more aware that the life and the city I was living in, I would leave my front door and I will have just done like a beautiful feminine practice. And then I step outside and all my armor has to go up because there's so much noise and there's so much energy coming at you. Once life started to come back online in New York, I got, I took a look at my job and I said, Can I can I be full-time remote? And they let me. So I sold my apartment. I lived nomadically for nine months, and I traveled around upstate New York and then I went to Mexico City, Oaxaca, Costa Rica, and I had to come back to the states for work. And I knew that I couldn't keep going. And it was just this the more that I got in tune with my body, the more I knew that I couldn't do this. But this journey of me going nomadic was like, I need to find my people. And I think what it really was was as a single woman in my late 30s at the time, I had finally realized that that what the world had told me was joy was not my joy. And I had to go on a deep search for what is my joy and who are my people, because New York wasn't my people anymore. I had changed. And so I also had to grieve the life that I thought I wanted. I wanted partnership and I wanted to have children, and I had wanted to have the house and do all the things, but I couldn't control when that partner was going to enter my life. And rather than sit and wait for it, what could I got to rethink what can life be for me?

SPEAKER_02 8:37

So what was the next, what was the next step in the journey for for Kat?

SPEAKER_01 8:41

So I came to Austin and I fell, I kind of fell in love and I went, This is cute. And then I left for like a week and came back and with the intention of staying for six weeks to test it out. And on day three of being here, I was laid off from my job at my agency that I had been with for over eight years. And it was perfect. It was they I had been wanting to save up a certain amount of money so I could leave and take time off. And my severance was almost exactly that number. And it wasn't my ego gets hurt because it wasn't on my terms. But when I asked my boss when I was laid off and I asked him why me, I was expecting him to say, Well, you aren't in the office, you're nomadic. But what he said was, I heard you've been saying no a lot. And what I now know is that that is actually severe burnout. My nervous system was at capacity. I literally could not take on anymore. I had been going for over 10 years as a producer, which is pretty much a 24-7 job. I needed a break. And so that was also a big part of my wake-up call. And I didn't know what was next for me, but I did know that I wanted to understand somatic work more deeply. John had gifted me this beautiful soul-awakening version, but now I wanted the science and the psychology. And so that's what I dove into.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

The nervous system ladder. That's something I've heard you refer to. Yeah. Can you explain what that is and how that pertains to your work?

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Yeah. So the nervous system ladder, like, is probably one of the first things I teach either in my one-on-one clients or in my group program. And the nervous system ladder, the way the approach that we go with is really identifying what each stage feels like for you. So we have ventral vagal, which is like our safety connected state. And then we have sympathetic, it is fight or flight. And then we have dorsal, which is this collapse. So it might be that freeze. And so some people get stuck in certain stages. Like I said, fight or flight, that sympathetic was my that's my home base. That was normal for me. So I didn't know really that there was something different. And the nervous system ladder, the way it functions is we go down it and then up it. We don't like jump around it. So if someone's in this dorsal collapse, they have to go back through sympathetic, which is the activation to get back to the top. And so, you know, we just we did this practice a few weeks ago. And I think it's just so supportive to look at it as to being able to start to name where you are. If we can name something, now we have awareness around it, and now we have choices. So when I am in, and I call these stages for myself, loving, locked. My body just locks, I'm locked onto something and I'm locked down. You know, I can always remember my I had an ex-partner or my ex-boyfriend, and he I walked into the living room after a day of work, and he just has his arms open to me and a big smile on his face. And he is an invitation for me to come cuddle and to give me a hug. And I couldn't receive it because I was still in fight or flight. So I remember looking at him and I'm like, all I have in my brain is my to-do list. I actually wasn't able to be in connection. And then what would happen is okay, great. I've done my to-do list. Whew. Now I collapse. And I used, you know, wine to help numb. I and like TV. And that's not necessarily actually giving us rest. It's just avoidance of my stress and anxiety, but it was just collapse. I couldn't do anything or didn't want to do anything. And then I would start the day again the next day. I would start in that, I'd have like five minutes of that safe and connected, brush my teeth, and then I would check my phone and go right into that activation. Everyone is looking to the leader to regulate their system. Should I be worried? And if you're worried, guess what? They go, I feel that they're worried. So everyone then takes on that worry. So it's so that's where leadership to me, really understanding how you show up and what's going on underneath and how you react to the things in your world is a foundational part of leadership. And then once we know that, we now have choices.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

Totally. I'm just remembering when my boss used to come in the office and be like, oh, he's in a mood today. Don't talk to him. You know what I mean? Like he's in a mood. Yeah. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Dysregulated. Oh, okay, great. Now, how are how are we moving around him? How are we adjusting? Are we gonna go to them for help? No, no, we're not gonna go to them for help.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

You're not even gonna want to you want him to shut that door. Yeah, shut the door, get away, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Don't listen to us.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Yeah, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

But how and then that impacts your work for the day. That impacts your capacity. Uh, you know, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Then everyone would be like, oh crap, we're gonna get a shit ton of emails today, you know?

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Yeah, yeah. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Be ready for some feedback.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Exactly. So, how do how do we as leaders learn to take care of ourselves so that we can show up for our team so our team can function? But you said something before that, which is about saying, like, I can do anything a man can do. Yeah, and I can do it better. My mom's like, and I can do it better. Women can do anything men can do. We've proven that, right? This is and I think like that's actually part of why I've created the embodied boss, is because the feminist movement brought women into the workplace, but not as women. As women proving that we could be just like men. We were not welcomed in. They did not want us there. So we had to prove it. And so there's so much that I think women nowadays, like we are proving that we have to do all of it. We're proving I can do this just as good as you can. But if we're in our feminine, which is can be softer and expansive, we can also receive. We don't have to prove anything. In my experience of like being in the corporate world, there tend like I had some really terrible female bosses. I've had a couple great ones, but I'd say the majority of them were actually really terrible. And the reason that is is one, I there's either the woman that is proving that she can do anything. And then I find that they're typically micromanaging and overpowering and they're don't trust their teams or listen to their teams because they need to be right. And so the embodied boss is really about finding within each of us what that true balance is within us. It's not just being fully in our feminine, it's finding what our balance is in that, but calling us into defining what feminine leadership can be, which is like gonna be a beautiful, you know, infinite rainbow of what it gets to be, because each of us get to call that forth. But I think so many women are trying to do everything. And by trying to do everything, we do end up doing nothing because we burn ourselves out.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

I remember when I met you, you had come to one of our events and you talked about this idea of feminine leadership. And I think it's especially interesting now because I keep on getting like clickbait on my LinkedIn feed. For some reason, I keep getting things about feminine leadership in the workplace, but not the way that you've described it. In the way that you actually need to leave your femininity at the door. On the other hand, maybe even the same people saying boss babe movement is over. And I'm like, how can those two things be true? That like not to bring the attitude of being a boss babe or boss bitch or whatever, and like I have the energy to do it all. But then also saying at the same time, leave your caring motherly like thing at the door because some studies showed that the woman that is seen as the mother in the office is far less successful.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Yeah. You know, I think my approach is really unique so far from what I've found. You know, I fully believe that the woman who's bringing the mother energy to work is not being as successful because she's caretaking and she's she's not necessarily having her own boundaries that, but the person that's gonna be much more successful as a leader is the person that has their own self-boundaries and calls forward actually the person on their team. And so how do we step into that? And how do we call that person forward? So it's, but it doesn't mean that I leave my empathy at the door. I think the feminine is what is missing from the workplace. I think it is truly the gift that we need right now. It is the thing that we so desperately need right now in the world, especially with AI, especially with more of us working remotely. People are more lonely and isolated than they have ever been. And the gift of the feminine is to feel. But where we have to be careful is what are my feelings and what are your feelings? And so can I feel and gift you empathy and let you feel safe and seen and supported? Can I not just look at you as an employee, but as a human being who, you know, maybe you need some rest? Do you need to take a few days off for so that you can show up better for me next week and actually work, get more work done? How, what would make you feel valued? And I think the leaders going into what comes next, it's not going to be who can do more. It's gonna be who can actually connect more, who can feel more. And that's the leadership that we need because hopefully all of these AI agents, all of these tools actually get to free us up so that we're not in this constant state of doing, but we actually get to come into connection and have some space and room to support one another, to build things that matter to us. And that I believe has to be getting back to being human. The feminine, I think, is so important in the workplace, but we have to also not be coming from a place of power under or be afraid to make those hard decisions. I think the feminine doesn't have to be that soft. The feminine can be firm. Think of a lioness. Like she is, she at Mother Bear, all the mother earth, like all of these things, it is powerful. It's not just caretaking and nurturing, but that's what's been ingrained. So it's it's standing in our fullness of what our capability is and calling the other person forward.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

I find that it's hard to bring the balance to that. When I'm on, I'm on. You know what I mean? Like when I'm in the task, when I'm in the moment, when I'm finishing this huge project, which I love an adrenaline run. I just love an adrenaline rush, I love a good deadline. You know, I love having that gratification of like I finished a major, yes, yes, I love a gold star. I love it, I love it, I love it. And I'm gonna just say it to be honest, because it's just the way I operate. Yeah. Um, my mom used to give me star charts when I was a kid, and I I still love a good star chart. But, anyways, um, I remember you telling the story of how you also got so fueled from that adrenaline rush. I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

The thing is, is I loved it until I realized it was the thing that was making me sick. Yeah. Right. And so how it's when I loved it, when my identity and my self-worth was connected to my ability to achieve. Yeah. And now it's taken a lot of work to love myself, anyways, to say I don't have to be perfect. I am still saying I'm a recovering perfectionist, but I've learned that certain types of that adrenaline are not healthy for me when I am willing to push myself further and beyond. Like, you know, I had a project that I was given at work. And it, if I built out the traditional timeline for it, should have taken six months. I was given just 28 days to complete it. From the moment I walked in that room, I was the youngest person in the room, I was the only woman in the room. Room, there were full days on this project. I wasn't sleeping. At the end of it, the CMO of the company called me to say, thank you for pulling off the impossible. And when I asked the head of this team, like, do I call him back? He goes, I don't know. I've worked on his for his company for six years and he's never once thanked me. I got the best rush out of that, right? Gold, star, gold, star, gold, star, good girl. You did it. You put off the impossible. Look what you can do. I was curled up under a desk, shaking because my body couldn't control my temperature. I was sick for a week and a half after that because my body just went into full collapse. I had suffered from years of chronic pain because I was in this constant state of stress and anxiety. And we say there's ease in the body, dis-ease, and disease. That dis-ease leads to disease, but most of us don't address it until we're at the disease state because we aren't paying attention to it. So yeah, I can keep going and get that adrenaline rush, but I also am very attuned to the fact that it is no longer good for me.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

So it sounds like you knew at that moment I can't maintain this job and this lifestyle and have this balance. Like that's what I'm curious. How do you coach people to maintain the femininity and the leadership? Because I personally in the past and I'm looking to grow, you know, have found it hard to be both with the same person. Like it's almost like I have to be boundaried.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

The one thing I would say about boundaries, just add about boundaries is everyone thinks it's a wall, right? And it in my experience, if I feel into when I'm building a boundary and it becomes this hard push, that's usually for me, a boundary has already been crossed for me. And so I'm saying I'm being reactive. But if if I can create the container and like set my boundaries and like know what my boundaries are and start to feel when they're being encroached upon, I can lovingly pause. A real boundary is actually softer, right? It's it's it's actually more of a gate of saying, you can come up to the edge and I can still see you and we can still connect through this, but I get to say whether or not you pass. It's not like a heavy brick wall that I have in place that hides me. It's more of this gate that someone gets to come through or not, but I can see them, we can come into connection, and then I have choice. And I think so many women don't feel that they have choice in a lot of things. Our people pleaser kicks in, our codependency kicks in. And so when we actually start to build our boundaries, it allows us to come more deeply into connection because I but we also have to use our voice in our boundaries, right? And so by starting to learn to use my voice, I bring myself into safety because I know that my boundaries will not be crossed. I can hold them lovingly with someone. And that can show up in the workplace like no, I'm not going to take that on. But here's how I can support or here's what I am willing to do. Or that feels like too much. So the way that I approach this is really threefold. It's nervous system understanding so that you can see how you're showing up. Because once we name it, we can see it. Two, doing feminine embodiment work. So trying things on, calling ourselves into that. And then three, really, what is that leadership work? How are we showing up? How do we want to be showing up? Who do we get to be in vision for our team so that we're we're actually elevating them, not caretaking them? Any leadership program that I was given at work was like, here's your personality type. And I'm like, well, that taught me nothing.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

I know I'm DI.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

I don't even remember. I can see it visually on a chart.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Yes, I am both dominant and yeah, and like I like to talk to people. I forgot what it was, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Social, like and like, yeah. Yeah. So it's like, but it's like, all right, well, what do I do with that? Like, you know, but this is actually like who do you get to be? It's bringing into your system. And so that's why my what my work, I call it the embodied boss, because it's about how do you embody this? Right. So how do and I think and I work specifically focused with women because I I want them to come into their fullness. And I don't know what that looks like for you or any other woman, but I get to help them find and define what it is for them so that when they walk in that room, they're also the grounded person and their nervous system is grounded and grounding everybody else because it has an impact on everyone in the room. So when we show up regulated, grounded, we can now think more clearly, respond more quickly. And also, if we're filling up and taking up that space, we're just naturally commanding respect rather than walking in going, I'm gonna prove that you should respect me. If I just walk in grounded and filled up to my edges, really taking up the space that is within myself, then people will see me. But so many women, I've it's my experience that they're taught to shrink, they're taught to be sort of an inconvenience. And that's where the empathy, connection, attunement of the feminine, I think, is really what's going to lead us into this. And it can start just in talking with our neighbors. It can be you talk, you know, and I think it starts with feminine leadership at work. And how do we get to start to show that this connection is safe? That if we care for people as humans and for who we are, how do we create that that with while also staying firmly in that boundary? It's but it's not an impenetrable element. It's how do we come into connection again with one another? And that's where I think we heal.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

I really want every person in the room to feel like they can ask the question, like not have the onus be awkward. You host an event, you have a QA, and then crickets because people are scared. Just I want people to feel like they can take space and that their question is worthy.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

I always tell people I can guarantee you that someone else in the room has a similar question. Our thoughts aren't a thousand percent unique, right? So by raising your hand and asking the question, maybe it gives someone else an opportunity. But sometimes also if no one's raising their hand, as I am also usually that person that's the first to raise their hand and is like, okay, I'll go, I'll fill the space. But what if we've been trained also to be so uncomfortable with quiet space? Right. So there's also that standing back that we get to allow, taking time to let things get uncomfortable. We we're like all so quick to fill, to make sure that we're entertained, that no one's we don't take a minute that we say the right answer right away. And it's like what we we get to slow down a little bit. And so I want to invite all of us as women to like let ourselves have a freaking minute, to let it go slower, to actually feel in our body, because by trying to move so fast, we're, you know, what we didn't touch on is I'm a somatic coach. It's body-based. So we're we've lost the wisdom of our body. And when I come into connection with my body and into my intuition, that is where my knowing lives. That is where my confidence lives. That is where I'm allowed to fill myself up and take up space because I am so full and I'm so in tune with it. And I can find pleasure and joy in any moment because I come back to my body. And so by letting us slow down, we get to take a moment and actually let ourselves connect with that intuition again. And I think for the shy women in the room, we also get to give them space. And so sometimes the quiet is the permission that that person that's nervous to say the thing is because they're because they're usually waiting for someone else to raise their hand and ask the question. And so it's finding that balance. I, as a facilitator and a leader, I am perfectly comfortable with it being quiet to let someone take that moment so that they can step forward.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

I I literally became the treasurer of the PTA last year. Of course you did. Because of uncomfortable silence, because no one else in the room stepped up. And I did give it a minute. I gave it to you. And then I was like, Yeah, I guess I'll do that. You know, and I've you're right, it's because I'm uncomfortable with silence, do and it's that people pleaser I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

And you don't mind me naming it. Oh, it is like someone else's. Okay, I'll do it. And like, okay, I'm gonna step in and I'll make sure everyone else is happy that you know that's the kids are taken care of, and I'll do it. I'll do it. Right? How many, you know, but is how many women do that?

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Probably a lot.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

The majority, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Right. Yeah. And that's why our mental load is so crazy.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

And that's why our mental load is crazy. And that's why, and it's like if it was if you let yourself slow down and and sit not in the discomfort of like it's not my, I don't have to save everybody. Is this something I want to do? Letting not the idea of social obligation, which women I think we always feel, but like standing in, okay, is this is this going to nurture me or drain me? Does this fill up my cup or take away from my cup?

SPEAKER_02 31:55

You touched on this a little bit earlier, which was the future of AI and bringing back our humanity. And the feminine leadership really lends itself to that.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Yeah, I fully, fully agree that if we step into this opportunity, right, there's there's different viewpoints, right? One, AI, we don't know what's coming. But I do think that if we choose into it, that we can create AI employees to support us, to help us in our jobs. The goal is not that AI employees are now going to replace us. We still need to manage these things. We need to turn on our brains. We need to turn on our intuition to say, that data is not right and let me follow it. Or, or how do I bring these pieces together? And so, what this gets to do is actually give us more time back so that we can start to slow down, so that we can start to listen to our bodies, so we can listen to that intuition and hopefully also come back into connection. So, as a leader, now maybe I get to lead actually truly lead the humans through this, right? And come into connection with them. And that's where I think the feminine that empathy, that attunement to others is going to be such a gift. That is the thing that we are all so desperate for.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

We all just want to feel safe and seen. And like that's that's at the core of I feel what most people want in the workplace. I want to feel safe and I want to feel seen. It's not talking to Chat GPT, it's not talking to a droid on chat GPT, but maybe talking to a human, you know. But how do we start to come back into connection? And that is going to be, I think, the most beautiful gift that can come out of this if we choose into it.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

The Joaquin Phoenix movie has never been so real in my life. Which Joaquin Phoenix movie? Where he falls in love with Siri? Oh, her.

unknown 34:12

Yes. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

I haven't seen that in it since it came out, so I'm not quite sure.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

It's old.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

It's old, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Yeah, but it's very real now. I'm just thinking about all my friends that use ChatGPT as their therapist, literally. It has a persona. They think it has a persona, which Stephanie constantly reminds me it's not.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

It's not. It's it's genuinely made to yes you. It is made to make you think that you are fantastic because people want to be people pleased, right? No one wants to be wrong. And so that is the problem with using that for anything. And but they're saying, I think there's a crazy statistic out there of how many teenagers have already had like an AI romance. And yeah, it's it's terrifying to me. It's terrifying to me. And it's like the we have to start coming back into connections as humans, and politics has been dividing us. And so we're now, and people get canceled, and we're so afraid to actually come into connection or say the wrong thing that we aren't actually stepping in and asking each other questions. And I think that's been a really big miss right now. And so we go into our echo chambers with the bots rather than saying, you know what, I might get this wrong. And so that's something else we have to learn is repair. And that's something that I teach as well is how do we repair when we get it wrong? Because we are human, but we can't be so afraid of getting it wrong that we stop connecting.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

What is your single piece of advice to all the huntresses out there?

SPEAKER_01 35:46

My single piece of advice to all the huntresses out there is to figure out who the F you are and cultivate that as deeply as you can so that you know that center to keep coming back to.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

The last thing is what does rich mean to you? Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

What rich means to me is having spaciousness in my day.

SPEAKER_03 36:18

It means supporting others and it means being joyful.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

Um, thank you, Kat, for your time today. We really enjoyed having you on the pod. Thank you for having me. And find Kat at embodiedboss.com. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Bye. Bye. If you enjoyed this episode of Talk Rich to Me, you'll love the Huntress Wealth app, where you can get more comfortable with money, make a financial plan, and make your money move. Sign up now at HuntressWealth.com.